Ray Zinn: Hi Rob. Good to be with you today.

Rob Artigo: Page 89 is what I’m focused on in Zen of Zinn 2, the book you wrote, and it’s about the victim mentality, and you talk about it by sharing a list that you created and you called it the victim mentality list, appropriately named. So I thought we would go through some of these items here on this list of the victim mentality and just talk about why they are associated with the victim mentality. The first one is blame. When it comes to the victim mentality apparently blame tops your list. Tell me about it.

Ray Zinn: Well, what’s interesting, Rob, is that the victim mentality, if I were to ask you, “Rob, do you have a victim mentality?” You would probably say what?

Rob Artigo: I would say, “No.”

Ray Zinn: See. I’ve never talked to anybody, not one single person when I’ve discussed the subject of victim mentality, none of them say, “Oh no, I don’t have a victim mentality. No, not me.” And so it’s ironic and we made up this list. So let’s see. When we finish this podcast, you can rate yourself as to whether or not you have a victim mentality.

Rob Artigo: Okay, okay.

Ray Zinn: A victim mentality, as I started out, number one is blame. If you blame someone else for a problem you have or had, then that’s one characteristic of a victim mentality. Have you ever blamed anyone for something that impacted you? Have you, Rob? When you’ve had a problem, have you ever blamed someone?

Rob Artigo: I’m sure I have. At one point or another I have definitely done that. Number two on the list is rationalize and self-justify.

Ray Zinn: Have you ever rationalized something saying, “Well, I’m not perfect. Yeah, I’m not a skilled mechanic, or I’m not a carpenter, so that’s why this project didn’t turn out so well.” Or, “The wood was warped or something else was wrong. The machine broke, my 3D printer made a mess of my project.” So that’s when we start rationalizing, it’s something like blame. We start rationalizing why something didn’t turn out. Again, we’re back to blame again, something else and that, well, the economy, that’s another one. We could say, “Well, the economy, I lost my job. It’s not me, it’s somebody else, something, a piece of equipment broke down or whatever.” And that’s how we rationalize our failure in a particular project.

Rob Artigo: And the next one is complain.

Ray Zinn: Right. Have you ever complained about the weather? Have you ever complained about your spouse or have you ever complained about your neighbors? Ever complained about somebody who cut you off when you were driving where you said, “Hey, dummy, use your signal,” have you ever done that?

Rob Artigo: I hate to admit it, but on the driving part, yes, I mumble under my breath how dumb they are?

Ray Zinn: Well, again, see, so we’re complaining. And so if you say, “Oh, man, what a crummy day today is,” or, “Gosh, that guy just pulled in front of me or he cut me off, or he got in front of me in line.” I was shopping the other day with my wife and there’s about four or five lines that we could go into, and of course my wife’s looking for the shortest line to get to the cashier. And she said, “Come hurry over here. This is line’s less people.” And as I started to move over there, this other person who was right next to me took off. It was a woman actually with a cart full of stuff, and she just went right in front of me, actually hit my cart, knocked me sideways a little bit, and boy, I didn’t think very kindly of that. I said, “Oh.” I didn’t say anything to her, but I was not thinking a happy thought.

Rob Artigo: Yeah, well, you’re one to make sure that you pause and bite your tongue a little bit when you feel like saying something and you don’t, that moves into make excuses as well, I think it falls in line with that. And then the next one is finding fault and getting angry.

Ray Zinn: Well, these are all kind of tied together. Have you ever been angry, Rob?

Rob Artigo: Sure.

Ray Zinn: Okay. So that’s another victim. In other words, when you are trying to blame someone else for the difficulty or the kerfuffle that you’re in, that’s a clear sign that you’re playing the part of a victim. You just have to know that victims come from different ways and you keep thinking, “Well, I don’t think that’s a victim if I get angry and upset.” I see that now with what’s happening with Tesla because of Elon Musk, they’re getting angry, they’re burning his dealerships or destroying cars, writing graffiti on the cars. That’s a way of saying I’m a victim. In fact, we’ve heard some of the news media excuse the people who are doing damage to these Tesla dealerships and cars because they’re angry and upset, “You’re impacting me. I don’t like you anymore.” And you’re playing a part of a victim when you do that, when you get angry and upset.

All of us at some time or another probably have a victim mentality. But again, if I ask you, “Do you play the part of a victim?” You say no because you hate the thought of being called a victim. I’ve heard lots of interviews on TV and radio, people saying, “Oh, you act like a victim.”

“Oh, no, no, not me. I’m not a victim.” And they get all irate. So none of us want to be considered a victim, but if we blame others, we look for excuses, we try to rationalize it, are angry and upset, then we are a victim.

Rob Artigo: Yeah, the list goes on here. It talks about minimizing and trivializing things, making demands, covering things up. How about doubt and lose hope?

Ray Zinn: Right. If you don’t think the future is good enough for you, if you don’t think that the government’s treating you right, if you don’t think that you’re going to have a better life or things are going to get better for you, you’re losing hope, you have doubt, and that’s another sign of a victim. “It ain’t me. I can’t be a victim because somebody else is doing it to me.”

Rob Artigo: Yeah, and it sounds like this other one here, having self-pity and being the victim, which is kind of obvious and then abandon, indecision, denying and lying, procrastinating and rebelling. How about rebelling?

Ray Zinn: Well, again, as that destroying those Tesla dealerships, that’s rebellion. And so fighting back, getting angry and upset, throwing a tantrum and doing things which are deleterious too is playing the part of the victim. I have a right to get mad, in other words.

Rob Artigo: Yeah, you finish this off by saying, “We have a choice. Give up our agency, be a victim, or take control of our life and accept responsibility for our actions.”

Ray Zinn: Just be happy. If you’re happy, you’re not going to be a victim. So be grateful, happy, serve others. Do what you can to make this a better place and you will not be a victim. So if you want to avoid the victim mentality, avoid all that list of things that I discussed in that musing and you will be a happier and you won’t be a victim.

Rob Artigo: Of course, our listeners can join us at toughthingsfirst.com if they have any questions or comments, you can just leave a message there for Ray. He’ll answer the questions, he’ll help you out if you are confused about something. Please go to toughthingsfirst.com and try that out. Follow Ray on X and Facebook and LinkedIn and pick up the books, Tough Things First and, of course, the Zen of Zinn series one, two, and three and on sale now The Essential Leader: 10 Skills, Attributes, and Fundamentals That Make Up the Essential Leader Thank you, Ray.

Ray Zinn: Thanks, Rob.