You have your “bandwidths”, your “synergies” and your “lean-ins,” to name a few and what do they all have in common? They are cliche’ and overused. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn says you need to cultivate a growth mindset, not a worthless vocabulary.
Ray Zinn: Hello, Rob. Good to be with you today.
Rob Artigo: We’ve seen in recent years, Ray, a movement toward workplace structures that have been controversial in the area of like, equity and inclusion. I want to talk a little bit about how real leaders can encourage continuous improvement and innovation in the workplace without getting tripped up by trendy concepts. So Mike Krell, the way you operated, you basically created safe spaces for risk-taking feedback and diverse perspectives that were drivers for both teams and personal development. Isn’t that true?
Ray Zinn: That’s right. Absolutely, very important.
Rob Artigo: Diversity, equity, and inclusion in my mind is really about just respecting every individual regardless of who they are. That was a major culture at Mike Krell.
Ray Zinn: Well, diversity, equity and inclusion is a buzzword, so that you basically focus more on inclusion than you did on their performance. And so, while we want everybody to feel included, we don’t want to make the decision based on, just to include them, as far as is they’re promotions or growth within the company, has to be based on performance.
So we want inclusion. There’s no doubt. And diversity is not that important. Even though the United States is a very diverse country, probably the most diverse country in the world, we don’t want to subtract as you would from performance just to get diversity.
I do agree that equity and inclusion are important. because We do want to make sure that that we’re equitable in the way in which we pay people and which way we ensure that they’re getting the proper income for their effort, irrespective of their race, color, creed, or sex or whatever.
Rob Artigo: Would you call that just being a mindful leader to take that approach?
Ray Zinn: Do what again?
Rob Artigo: It’s being a mindful leader.
Ray Zinn: Being mindful is making sure that you have… That was a third by the way, just to back up. That was the third quality of the company. The culture of the company was to have dignity and respect for every individual, regardless of who they are. That doesn’t mean you promote them based on diversity, equity, inclusion, is that you want to respect them. In other words, you want not to disregard whatever performance that they’re doing, whether it be a janitor or a vice president. You want to respect what job they’re doing and make sure it’s mindful. You’re mindful of what it is you’re asking them to do.
Rob Artigo: Like you said, it’s a buzzword, DEI, call it DEI. It’s a buzzword. We’ve sort of turned a corner, don’t you think? Where because of, I think Elon Musk might’ve been one of the first people, the first big names out there publicly to say, “No, no, we’re about, we’re performance-based here. And we’re going to get away from playing games with this. We’re going to do performance-based, but we’re going to give everybody a chance who does good or great to do better.”
Ray Zinn: Yeah. Well, again, we’re back to what it is that we’re trying to accomplish. As a kid playing sports, what we did is we lined everybody up and then we had the two opposing leaders of the teams, and then we would start picking our players, and I always picked the best ones that I could find. I didn’t necessarily pick them to be inclusive saying, “Oh, there’s a little short guy that’s going to be playing football. I’ll pick him.”
I tried to pick the best ones I could for my team because I wanted to win. This is where, when you’re being mindful, if you’re the little guy that’s left and nobody wants you, that you’re going to feel terrible. I am short anyway. And oftentimes I was the last to be picked because I was short, and it did bother me. But I recognized that that was just not my personal problem, it’s just my heritage, my genetics as you would. And I accepted it, but that made me more resilient.
In other words, because I was short, I wanted to make sure that that shortness was not a handicap. And so, I performed really well and established my reputation to be very quick and agile, and I found out that I was being picked actually early as a player on a team, because I didn’t let my lack of height, that you would, my vertical handicap. I didn’t let that become a hindrance. We want to offset that no matter what our particular handicap is, we want to offset that with our performance.
So it all goes back to performance. You’re only going to be not included if you let your handicap be your handicap.
Rob Artigo: If you get two team captains, and I remember that experience myself. There were times when I was picked last, and it was that gut feeling, that sinking feeling that, “Oh my gosh, don’t be last, don’t be last, don’t be last.” I mean, every kid knows that feeling when you’re in that situation.
But let’s say you get your two team captains. You want them to win. You want them both to want to win. And so, the goal is as the leader, you’re the team captain, so you’re the leader, is to pick the people that are going to help you win. And that’s it. So your analogy is just spot on.
Ray Zinn: Well, I let my handicap be my advantage. If you do have a handicap, and no matter what it is, work that to your advantage. Don’t let it be, your handicap become your handicap. In my book, Tough Things First, to tell the story, but I lost my eyesight when I was on the road show for our IPO in 1994, and first I thought this was going to destroy me as a leader of my company, because my vision was going to be a handicap in running the company.
But as it turned out, my handicap became my strength because I improved my memory and a bunch of other aspects of… I became more caring, more sensitive as a CEO when I lost my vision, because it required me to be more dependent on other people. So I let my handicap become an advantage, and as a result, we became a very successful semiconductor company, primarily because I didn’t let my handicap become my handicap.
Rob Artigo: Great conversation, ray. Our listeners can go to Toughthingsfirst.com and ask you questions. They can give you some comments there as well.
You can also find past podcasts. In some cases, you’ve got video podcasts, so you can just look down the list and find what you want. And also, follow Ray on X, Facebook, and LinkedIn, and of course, pick up Ray’s books, Tough Things First and the Zen of Zinn Series 1, 2, and 3, on sale now, The Essential Leader: 10 skills, Attributes, and Fundamentals that make up the Essential Leader and Amazon Best Seller. Thank you, Ray.
