Rob Artigo: Ray, today’s line sounds like a contradiction and, “Live as though you will die tomorrow, but plan as though you will never die.” You’ve told people, “Yesterday’s done, tomorrow isn’t here, and today is the gift.” I would say capital G, Gift. You’ve also built a company, a culture, and a body of work as if the runway had no end. How do these two instructions sit in the same life? I mean, this contradiction, how does it exist in the same life?

Ray Zinn: Well, as you said, it’s just, “Live your life as though you’re never going to die, but plan your life as though you’re going to die tomorrow.” You can’t worry about yesterday, you can’t worry about tomorrow, you can only worry about today. The key is, that’s why they call it a present, because today is the present. You can’t fix tomorrow, you can’t fix yesterday, you can only fix today. But to have a plan, plan as though you’re going to die tomorrow, okay? But live your life as though you’re never going to die. And so be prepared to live on and on and on, but plan as though the eventual is going to happen.

And so that’s the key, is having that ability to sustain yourself. And I did that running Micrel for 37 years, profitably for 36, by planning as though the end was going to come today, as you would, but living it as though we were never going to die, as you would. And then that’s kept us, our longevity as good as it is, is just that ability to sustain ourselves long-term by fixing the things that we need to be fixed today. Don’t fix them tomorrow, don’t fix them yesterday, fix them today.

Rob Artigo: And you know as well as I do that young people, and there are a lot of young people, college age kids here because of Zen Starter and your mentoring and other activities that you do, and of course your books, a lot of young people, college age, listen to this program. And they might get as far as live as though you will die tomorrow, and stop. And then it becomes a matter of impulse, like just skipping hard conversations, spending the reserves they have, delaying apologies, whatever you want to say, but it’s like burn brightly today without regard for what’s going to happen tomorrow. Does this half of the sentence actually apply to a leader on any ordinary day, I mean, where they have to watch what they’re doing to make sure that they don’t burn themselves out?

Ray Zinn: Well, there’s that saying, “Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you die.” And that’s what they do, is they say, “Well, we’re not going to live forever, so I might as well have fun.” That’s a very short term view of life. In other words, if you think you’re going to die tomorrow, what you’re going to do is you’re not going to last until tomorrow. And so this, “Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die,” is the parable of the idiot.

So what you want to do is you want to live your life as though you’re never going to die. So an eat, drink and be merry is not going to fly. You don’t want to throw away the future just by enjoying today. That’s the key. If you eat drink, and be merry, you will die. Okay? If that’s your plan, then of course you’ll accomplish it. So if you live your life as though you’re never going to die, it means you’re going to have the right habits, you’re going to develop the right character and have the right culture. You’re going to do all those, eat the right vitamins, you’re going to do all that, and that’s the way that you’ll live your life. And your plan as though you’re going to die tomorrow means you make sure that you have a good plan that will sustain you so that you’ll live on forever.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. And that plan is culture, cash, succession, health, and this is a big one, a reputation that outlasts you. If you burn brightly and disappear, people will remember you for wasting time and wasting yourself instead of continuing to contribute to the world. And you have said a legacy is written over time, and that the earlier you start, the longer it lasts. So when you’re young, particularly do not forget the second part of this. The plan is though you will die tomorrow. So, what do people skip when they only live in the day and never build for a horizon they may never see?

Ray Zinn: If you don’t plan for the future, then you’re going to suffer. You’re going to suffer the consequences. Living for the moment is the problem. And so plan your future, plan as though you’re never going to die.

Rob Artigo: The same thing goes for business. And I know that Micrel, you were of the mindset that plan as though a downturn will never come but run as though it will arrive tomorrow. Or like you said earlier in another podcast, you said that it’ll all end today, it’ll all end today, you got to be prepared. Is this the same discipline applied to a whole life, urgency without sloppiness, patience without delay, kind of thinking?

Ray Zinn: Exactly. So, you just want to make sure that your plan you have is going to sustain you on into the future. That’s the key, is having a plan that’ll last forever as opposed to just a planning for the moment as you would. “Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you die,” is ridiculous.

Rob Artigo: Is there one thing that our listeners can put in motion today as if they will still be responsible 20 years from now, just in general?

Ray Zinn: I would say just having that ability to pivot, the ability to move. Who moved the cheese? Being able to deal with obstacles that you know are going to be thrown up in front of you.

Rob Artigo: Yeah, it’s a challenging environment. I know that even today, I would call you semi-retired. I mean, some people would say you’re retired, but you’ve got all these other things that you’re doing, that retirement wasn’t the end goal of the plan. The plan always outlives the concept of retirement for you. Finally, I guess the last thing here is, do you think that’s a good way for people to think is that don’t set retirement as a goal, think beyond that.

Ray Zinn: Well, I am retired in a sense of word, I don’t get a weekly paycheck or a monthly paycheck. That’s what I think of retirement. That doesn’t mean that I don’t do anything. I’ve written six books, I’m writing my seventh book. I’m writing church hymns. I’m doing a lot of things which normally people think you’re just going to die and so why not just eat, drink, and be merry? That’s not what retirement is. Retirement is, maybe you don’t have a monthly paycheck, but that doesn’t mean you stop doing things which are productive.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. Moral of the story today is, finish the work that can’t wait, right? And then build the things that should outlive you. Is that a good philosophy?

Ray Zinn: Perfect.

Rob Artigo: Yeah.

Ray Zinn: That’s it.

Rob Artigo: For our listeners, please join us at toughthingsfirst.com. You can continue the conversation there. Also, if you have questions for Ray or comments, you can offer them there as well. We have the podcast archives and the books, Tough Things First, The Essential Leader, and the Zen of Zen series, including The Zen of Zen Daily. Follow Ray on X, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Ray, we should do the tough things first, don’t you think?

Ray Zinn: Yeah, that’s what I do. Every morning, do the tough things first.