You have heard it said many times, but most people get it wrong. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn uses smart business logic not magic to demystifying the proverb “Trust But Verify.”
Rob Artigo: I’m Rob Artigo, joined once again with Ray, as you’ve just heard his voice right there, founder, longtime CEO at Micrel Semiconductor for 37 profitable years. Ray, today, we’re unpacking a well-known phrase, trust but verify. That was a phrase that was popularized back in the 80s by President Ronald Reagan. He famously used those words during the Cold War era nuclear disarmament negotiations with the Soviet Union. And that worked out well in the near term after that, but obviously, it’s important. Trust but verify. How did you apply this at Micrel over four decades?
Ray Zinn: First of all, Ronald Reagan meant that as an oxymoron. Let’s unpack or unbox-
Rob Artigo: Okay. Yeah, let’s do that.
Ray Zinn: … unbox the term. If you trust somebody, you don’t have to verify. It’s an oxymoron to say, I trust you, but I need to verify it. Because trust inherently eliminates the need for verification. And so if we think about the new EV vehicles that are now self-driving, we recently heard of a serious accident where a woman was killed by an EV vehicle that was still being watched or managed by a driver, but something happened with the self-driving software, so there’s a good example of trust, but verify. They’re blaming the driver who was apparently doing something else and not paying attention and watching his car. So you can trust as you would the managing of the car by software, but then being a backup or being a safety, verifying that there’s not something gone wrong with the system. So while it does sound a little bit like an oxymoron, because if you truly trust it, you do, you have to verify it.
Having said that, there are ways that you can still trust someone to do a good job in their occupation, but verify it through peaceful or good means where you are validating that something is being done properly. But I don’t want to minimize the value of trust. When you truly trust somebody, you don’t have to micromanage them. If you’re a micromanager and using that bad term of micromanaging, that means you’re basically asking them to do a job, but you’re basically taking it over and doing it yourself, that’s micromanaging. Or always questioning what they’re doing. If you’re always questioning what your employees are doing, you’re micromanaging. That’s the bad side of micromanaging. And then there’s a good side of micromanaging that we cover in our book where you are trust but verifying, meaning you are letting them do the job, but you’re watching the output. In other words, you’re looking at the results and making sure that that matches what the trust that you should employ with your employee.
Rob Artigo: The micromanaging, and you mentioned the book, The Essential Leader, there’s a whole chapter on that and that’s the right way to do micromanaging and how micromanaging gets a bad rap because people don’t do it right. And I think that’s where we’re going with that is that micromanaging can be, you can be a micromanager and do the trust, but verify and then verify heavy-handed, but micromanaging the right way, that is verifying without damaging relationships.
Ray Zinn: Because verifying as a consequence, like what President Trump said, that during the verification process that Iran is not adhering to the MOU, then he’s going to just bomb the heck out of them. And so …
Rob Artigo: Yikes.
Ray Zinn: … the verification comes with a penalty. And that’s the big problem of the process of verifying is how critical you are going to be in your response. And so with your employees, when you verify, and you see an issue, rather than bomb the heck out of them, you sit down with them and say, how can we improve this particular area, what can we do different or better, how can I help you? As opposed to, I’m going to blow your mind or I’m going to sever your ties with the company.
Rob Artigo: Yeah. And here’s a Ray Zinn checklist for you, built on doing the Tough Things First and also the details that we find in The Essential Leader, your other big book. Practical ways leaders can verify without damaging relationship. That’s the type of verify you’re talking about here is you’re not heavy-handed with the verification. So number one, this is a three-point checklist that the listeners can get out a pen and write it down, or pencil, whatever. Write it down, make a note, and then think about these things to help develop your own leadership skills. So the first one is having clear expectations upfront. Everyone knows the goals, timelines and how progress will be measured. There aren’t any surprises. It’s just getting the information out there makes a difference, right? Making sure that people understand what’s going on.
Ray Zinn: It’s like knowing where their limitations are. That’s the key. Know the strength and the weaknesses of your employees. So you double up on their strength, and you have double down on their weaknesses. So again, you don’t beat them over the head with their weaknesses, but you recognize it, and you plan for it. In a particular design, if there’s a particular area that is vulnerable to having error, you back it up. You verify it. You don’t want your employees to fail. In other words, what you want to do is build your system so that they win and not lose.
That’s the problem we’re having in politics today is we have this built-in loss or built in … We’re hoping they lose or hoping they fail, and that’s just not a good situation. So you want to have your process and procedures in place such as that you don’t hope that they lose, you hope that they win, and you provide that mechanism that allows them to win, and you minimize when they fail or when they lose. So as long as your employees know that you’re not going to blow the heck out of them, bomb them, their death or whatever, when they slip on a particular area, then they’re more likely to improve and grow …
Rob Artigo: Yeah.
Ray Zinn: … as opposed to want to protect themselves.
Rob Artigo: It’s the holding on to that trust thing, making sure that they continue to have the sense of trust that you have in them.
Ray Zinn: Exactly.
Rob Artigo: And number two is regular light touch-ins like short updates, dashboards, quick walkthroughs, instead of a heavy oversight that overwrought micromanaging can be.
Ray Zinn: Right. So again, you don’t want to be banging them over the head with a stick. You want a light touch checking up, seeing how they’re doing. Look at them as a loved one, as somebody that you admire, so treat them like they’re very valuable, like they’re delicate, and they need that soft support as opposed to that hard line macro managing where they get beat over the head.
Rob Artigo: Number three, focus on outcomes in learning. I know you alluded to this, but this is definitely one that I think about when I think about the Ray Zinn style. When something is off, ask what can we learn rather than who’s at fault in pointing the fingers.
Ray Zinn: Exactly. Right.
Rob Artigo: This turns verification into coaching.
Ray Zinn: Exactly. That’s what good coaching does. Good coaching strengthens, bad coaching disciplines. So you want to be high on coaching on the positive and less coaching on the negative. Meaning where you don’t want to be as hard line coach that you’re looked upon as being an enemy as opposed to being a friend. So a coach as a friend, not as an enemy.
Rob Artigo: Ray, thanks for breaking this down so clearly for us. The listeners should check out Ray’s books, The Essential Leader and Tough Things First. They both dive into these kinds of practical fundamentals. Grab a copy wherever books are sold. Visit Tough Things First for more episodes, the blog, and information about Ray Zinn and ZinnStarter, the mentoring program. So what’s your experience with trust but verify? You can share in the comments at toughthingsfirst.com. And remember, do the tough things first. Verify early, often, and trust can actually grow right, but you’ve got to be able to do the verification the right way. Right, Ray?
Ray Zinn: Exactly. Verify lovingly.
