You might not think so, but interviewing a candidate for a job is not easier than being interviewed. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn explains the process from both sides.
Rob Artigo: This is a quote from page 46 of Zen of Zinn, your book, page 46, and here it is: “When looking for a job, are you looking for money or opportunity? Most employers will soon find out. If your focus is money, your chances are worse in landing the job. Employers are looking for loyalty and thus focus on your job history. If on average you change jobs every three years or less, this will not portray you as a loyal employee. Employers are looking for dedicated team members who have a track record of loyalty. When hiring, be aware of the same desires within each candidate.”
Do you ask questions about what their goals are and get them to kind of reveal, even if they’re trying to conceal it, but reveal that they’re in it for the money?
Ray Zinn: Yes.
Ray Zinn Cont: So one of the questions I ask is, “How did you like your last job?” If they said, “Oh, I didn’t like my job. I didn’t like my boss,” or, “I didn’t like the product line,” or they got all these negatives, that’s a red flag. If on the other hand they respond, “Oh, I love my job. I love the company. I love my boss,” those are all positives. And so you say, “Then why are you leaving?”
If you’re moving, if you’ve gone from one city to another, that’s understandable. But if you’re within the same, as you would, block of the new company you’re going with, then you have to say, “Well, they’re cutting back,” or, “I don’t see any more opportunity for me. I’m topped out in my current job,” then those are good responses. If you give negative responses about your previous job, then that’s a red flag for the people that you’re trying to hire. That’s what I meant by if you’re focused on opportunity, that’s one thing. If you’re focused on money, that’s another.
Now, generally, when you interview somebody or if you’re an interviewee, you won’t talk about money at that point in the interview, but you can find out if that’s the focus when you interview the potential or the applicant. You can ask them, “How was the pay? How’d you like your remuneration, the benefits or whatever at your previous company?” And then you’ll get whatever responses they give. But if it’s negative, that’s a red flag.
So again, if you’re an applicant that you’re interviewing with a company, don’t respond negatively. If you’re an employer talking to the applicant, then you want to look for negative responses. So you can ask different kinds of questions about how’d you like your work area, where you worked, your office? Was it an open space? Would you have your own individual office? You can ask them how did you like the benefits of the company or how do you like the employees that you worked with? Or how’d you like your boss?
And you can keep asking those kinds of questions, and if you get a negative response, be careful. And my advice is be positive. Make sure that your responses are truthful. You don’t want to indicate that you’re not loyal, that you’re an easy person to work with. You want to come across that way, not that you’re going to be a handful or a difficult person.
Rob Artigo: Let’s say a more cynical youth was listening to this podcast and they heard all that advice. And then they go into a interview and they decide that what they’re going to do is just tell the interviewer what they think they want to hear. Can you tell as an interviewer when somebody is just feeding you a bunch of information that is really just sort of cookie cutter, they think this is what you want to hear?
Ray Zinn: Well, sure, absolutely. You can ask different questions in different ways. And again, whether you’re an interviewee or an interviewer, you can ask. As an interviewee, you can also ask the interviewer questions that also talks about what kind of company you’re going to be joining. You could ask what’s your turnover. If they say their turnover is greater than 15 or 20%, then you want to stay away from that kind of company.
If you’re wanting to know about reviews, how often do you get reviews, you say, “Well, we don’t do reviews,” that’s a red flag. If you say, “Well, we review our employees every quarter or every three months or every six months,” that’s a good response. Annual reviews are okay, but they’re not as good. You don’t get as good a feedback. And then you can also ask an interviewer if you could talk to one of the employees in your interview process.
If you’re an interviewer, you can ask them about how often they did reviews at your previous company, how’d you like the way they did reviews? Were they more positive or more negative? I mean, there’s several ways you can get information depending upon which way the conversation or the interview process goes. So no, you can figure it out if they’re being honest or not, both in terms of the employer as well as the employee or the applicant.
Rob Artigo: It’s hiring people and getting hired seem to be equally as difficult.
Ray Zinn: Exactly.
Rob Artigo: So I want to tell the listeners they should rate this podcast and also follow it so that we get a little bit more traction. We’re doing well. It’s a very popular podcast and we want to continue that trend. Please rate it and let us know what you think also at toughthingsfirst.com. Follow Ray on X, Facebook, and LinkedIn. And of course, pick up Ray’s books, Tough Things First, the Zen of Zinn series, 1, 2, and 3, and coming soon, the Zen of Zinn Daily, which is fantastic, a combination of a lot of those books. And on sale now, The Essential Leader: 10 Skills, Attributes, and Fundamentals That Make Up the Essential Leader. Thanks, Ray.
Ray Zinn: Thanks, Rob.
