It’s possible to be honest only sometimes, which makes integrity a full time job. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn discussing how honesty and integrity are different and how they may impact your reputation as a leader and coworker when applied disproportionately.
Rob Artigo: Well, you have talked a lot about honesty on this show, also integrity, but we’ve never really looked at them side-by-side, comparing one to the other and seeing where there’s overlap and how they are different, so let’s talk a little bit about that. Let’s start off with what your personal attitude is, what your personal definition of honesty is. So what does it mean to you, honesty?
Ray Zinn: Being truthful. In other words, being correct in what you’re saying, not being deceptive. So that’s what honesty is. Honesty is do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? That’s honesty.
Rob Artigo: And integrity.
Ray Zinn: Integrity is doing what’s right when no one’s watching. In other words, is your heart being honest or correct, as you would? Are you doing the right thing for the right reason? Integrity is, for example, if a store clerk gives you back more money than what you should in your change, integrity is then reimbursing the amount that was overpaid or obeying the laws of the road, as you would, staying within the speed limit, not taking something that doesn’t really belong to you or on it, back to the honesty thing.
So integrity is really where is your heart? What is your belief? For example, if you’re dishonest, you could tell the truth periodically, or you might obey the speed limit periodically, but you still don’t have integrity being that you’re not always honest or always doing the right thing for the right reason. So integrity is a longer period of time, whereas honesty could be just for the moment, as you would. For the moment, I’ll be the speed limit, or for the moment I’ll be truthful, but integrity is over the long haul. In other words, how honest are you over the long haul, as you would. So that’s the difference.
Rob Artigo: Okay. Well, let’s take a look at the two together, honesty and integrity. How are they different?
Ray Zinn: Honesty could be just for the moment, you’re honest for the moment, you’re obeying the speed limit, for the moment you’re paying your fair share of taxes, or maybe for the moment you might reimburse somebody for overpaying you, or maybe you’ll pay the correct amount for the job done. Integrity is over the long haul. It means that you’ll every day, every week, every month, every year, you’re being honest. So honesty could be just a short term, whereas integrity is a longer period, meaning that you have integrity, you’re always honest, you’re always doing what’s right.
Rob Artigo: Can we be honest but lack integrity in different ways?
Ray Zinn: You could obey the speed limit in town because there’s more police around, but then when you get on the freeway, you may drive faster than the speed limit. So you could be honest in some respects, but not honest in all respects. Or it might be that you’re not stealing your neighbor’s fruit trees, fruit off the tree, but you might kick their dog or whatever. I mean, so honesty is more at the moment, okay?
Rob Artigo: And I guess it doesn’t necessarily mean that something has to be against the law or a written law. For example, you mentioned the fruit tree. Let’s say you’re walking down the street, and a lemon has fallen off a tree, and it’s laying on the sidewalk. Really, you’re not really stealing, but maybe you’re not particularly acting ethically if you’re just going to take stuff without getting the permission of the owner.
Ray Zinn: Yeah, that’s a good point. Let’s say there’s fruit on the ground, as you would, there’s no sign that says, “Please have any of the fruit that’s on the ground.” So should you pick it up and take it with you? That’s an interesting point. You’re saying, “Well, but I don’t want to see that fruit go to waste, and so I’m just going to take it with me, and then hopefully that’s not being dishonest because I’m not trying to be wasteful.” But what if somebody just was walking by, and there was no fruit on the ground, but they shook the tree, made the fruit fall on the ground, and then pick it up? “Oh, I’m just picking up the fruit that’s on the ground.” Or you’re walking behind him, you say, “Oh, that guy just shook the, look at the fruit on the ground.”
It depends upon how fine a line you want to draw between what’s honest and what’s dishonest. If the neighbor doesn’t complain, and you pick it up, I don’t know. I mean, that’s a good point. Now, I mean the neighbor can’t force you to pick up that fruit. So if you were to walk on by and not take it, then that’s being ethical or honest. I mean, you’re saying, “Well, but I don’t want to see the fruit go to waste.” But that’s not your fruit to waste. Okay? That’s the neighbor’s fruit to waste. So again, that’s a good corollary as to what’s considered honest and what’s considered dishonest. So it’s kind of like the story about at work, do you take the paperclip home? Do you take the pencil home or the pen? Is that ethical? The answer’s no to taking it home. Or to use, or let’s say rather than you going down and buying paper for your printer, you just take some that at work. You just take some of that paper from work.
Rob Artigo: Take a ream. Take a whole ream home. Yeah.
Ray Zinn: Or not, maybe you don’t want to look that evil, so you just take part of the ream, as you would.
Rob Artigo: Degrees of evil.
Ray Zinn:
You left a cover there, so at least you just took a few pages, as you would, and that’s dishonest. Okay?
Rob Artigo: Yeah. It’s also dishonest when somebody asks, “Did you do it?” And you say no.
Ray Zinn: Exactly. If you said yes, you took the paper because they asked.
Rob Artigo: You could make it, right? I mean, if they ask, and you said, “Yes, I’m replacing it.” You could just make up for it. I mean, that’s how I’d like to wrap up the podcast is to say, Ray, is maybe something we’ve realized down the road a week or two or even a year, we realized maybe we sort of lied and maybe we didn’t practice good integrity in a certain area, or we weren’t really honest on something. Can we make it up down the road somehow?
Ray Zinn: Well, I write a lot of musings. These are quotes and stuff I do every day. I write and post them on Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn and so forth. I post these, and I’m very careful that if I’m looking like I’m quoting or look like I’m taking something that is already known to be somebody else’s quote or work, I feel compelled to acknowledge that saying, “This is an old saying.” Or if I don’t know the author, or, “This is a quote by Dwight Eisenhower or something.” I’ll say that, I’ll recognize that because that’s the correct thing to do. If I quote something, if I make a statement about a quote, and I don’t know who it was, I’ll say unknown author or something. So people don’t think it’s mine.
And even if I try to reword it, so it’s not exactly like that person’s quote, I feel bad about it. I still say, “I’ve reworded this, but it’s similar to, as you would.” So that’s having integrity and being honest, okay, is to do the right thing for the right reason, as you would. Depends upon how honest you want to be, and your daily dealings will depend upon how you respond to different situations where you find a dollar on the pavement and say, “Well, I don’t know whose dollar this is. What do I do?” Well, you walk into the store and say, “I found this on the pavement.” And if somebody comes by and says, “Did anybody find any money?” At least you’ve been honest about it. Or they hold it for you for 30 days or a month or whatever, I mean a year, and then they give it to you. That’s being honest, but just to pick it up and say, “Well.” What’s that? There’s a saying.
Rob Artigo: Finders keepers, losers weepers,
Ray Zinn: Right. Finders keepers, losers weepers. Yeah, that’s the saying that most people use. They see a dollar, and they pick it up. Now, if it’s a penny, I’m not going to go in the store and say, I found this penny on the ground. If anything, I’ll just pass it up. I’ll just walk by it. I won’t pick it up.
Rob Artigo: Yeah. Plus, if you find a penny, pick it up, all the day you’ll have good luck.
Ray Zinn: There you go. That’s it. That’s another saying.
Rob Artigo: Yeah. Well, Ray, let’s wrap this up. I just want to let the listeners know they can join the conversation at toughthingsfirst.com. If you have questions, you can get them to Ray. Also, if you have comments, you’re always welcome to join us at toughthingsfirst.com and put that there. Follow Ray Zinn on X, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Pick up Ray’s books, Tough Things First, his first book and the Zen of Zinn series. You won’t regret picking these books up, and we look forward to introducing the new book to you. Thanks, Ray.
Ray Zinn: Thanks a lot, Rob.
