How do successful people master resilience for career and life success? In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn says it comes down to mental toughness and the key to that comes from within you.
Rob Artigo: Well, Ray, let’s talk about how we can develop mental toughness to adapt, to change, and overcome setbacks. This goes to mastering resilience for career and life success because we do need to be resilient. In doing so, we have to develop a certain mental toughness. I wonder if you have an idea of what mental toughness is in your mind.
Ray Zinn: Yeah, it is based on confidence. It’s all about confidence, and how do you develop confidence? Well, that’s the key to our podcast today is how do we get confidence? Actually a trait that we have to develop even as a young person, whether you’re primary school, child or teenager or college. Developing confidence is the key to having this resilience. The way to develop confidence, it goes back to what your standards are, what your beliefs are, what drives you to do anything, whether it’s work or play or school or whatever, is you have to have that confidence that you can succeed.
Rob Artigo: Can we be overconfident because we’re overestimating what we can accomplish?
Ray Zinn: Sure. The way you become overconfident is an ego. It’s all relates to your ego. So if you have a really a pretty large ego, then you’re going to have what we refer to as overconfidence, and of course that can lead to failure just as fast as a lack of confidence. So you want to have a kind of balanced level of confidence so your ego doesn’t get in the way of your progress or your insecurity gets in the way of your progress.
Rob Artigo: Well, in investing, we talk about being risk-averse. Can people be change-averse?
Ray Zinn: Yeah, I think change is difficult for almost all of us. We all resist change, whether you’ve got overconfidence or underconfidence, or whatever your problem is, you do have this lack of focus and that prevents you from developing the proper level of confidence as you would or the proper level of risk that you’re willing to accept. Risk-averse is a challenge for all of us. We all resist change.
It’s like when I was learning to swim as a five-year-old, my uncle, my dad was watching, I actually can remember it even though it’s many, many years ago. I can remember it as clear as day. My uncle told my dad, he’s not going to learn to swim unless you just throw him in. Okay, just letting him paddle around is not going to get him to… So here I am, five years old, he grabs me and he throws me in the pool and my dad was ready to jump in and my uncle stopped my dad from jumping in. My uncle said, “It is not going to hurt him to take a few gulps of water.” So how do you learn to swim? Is by not letting your head stander too long.
A student asked Socrates, “How do I gain knowledge and wisdom?” And Socrates says, “Well, I’ll show you.” And he says, “Meet me down at the ocean tomorrow morning at six o’clock and I’ll show you how to do it.” So the student was actually there by 5:30 and Socrates walked out into the ocean about chest high and he said, “Come on out with me.”
And so then the student went out to where the Socrates was standing in chest high water and Socrates dunked his head under the water and held him there until he could see him gurgling and swallowing amounts of seawater. And then he pulled him up and the student was spitting and shaking his head, and Socrates looked him right in the eye and said, “Now what did you want more than anything else while your head was under water?” And the student says, “I wanted air.” And so the Socrates said, “Well, when you want knowledge and wisdom as much as you wanted air, you’ll find a way to get it.” And that’s the way it was when my uncle threw me the pool, he turned to my dad and said, “Look, he’s learned to swim already.” So, anyway.
Rob Artigo: Yeah, I don’t know. I have seen this technique done before. I’m not sure I’d want to do it because, like your dad, my impulse would be to jump in the water and rescue. But I have seen this technique where they’ve taken basically babies and dropped them in the water and within a few minutes they’re swimming around.
Ray Zinn: Well, there’s that saying, Rob, sink or swim. You ever heard that?
Rob Artigo: Yeah.
Ray Zinn: Okay. That’s what we’re talking about is sink or swim. Years ago when they had that research vessel capsize in the Baja California or whatever it is that ocean in between Baja and Mexico, there’s that research vessel overturned. There were like 10 researchers that were lost in that tragedy. I think it was, what they call it, chubasco. A big storm came up and caused that vessel to overturn, but three of them made it back to shore. So seven were lost and three survived. They were interviewing them and said, “Well, how did you survive? And the others perished?” And the three said almost simultaneously, “We didn’t quit swimming.” So obviously that says something about persistence and what we’re talking about being risk-averse.
Sometimes you just got to keep swimming, as that saying goes, sink or swim. So if you don’t want to die, you better keep swimming. Like Socrates says, when you want knowledge and wisdom as much as you want air, you’ll find a way to get it. So this all ties together, Rob, about how do you have mental toughness and resilience is you just got to keep swimming. You can’t quit swimming.
Rob Artigo: Right. That goes for your continuing education, your physical fitness, all of those things work together to help bolster your chances of success. Well, Ray, join the conversation at toughthingsfirst.com. Your questions and comments are always welcome. Follow Ray on X, Facebook, and LinkedIn, and of course pick up Ray’s books, the Tough Things First book and of course Zen of Zinn Series 1, 2, and 3, and on sale now, The Essential Leader. Thanks, Ray.
Ray Zinn: Thanks Rob. Good to be with you.
