Plan all you want, but if you do not intend to finish you probably lack the discipline to get it done in the first place. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn explores the elements that turn ideas or desires into realities.
Rob Artigo: Ray, I hear people talking about discipline, and sometimes they just say they picture a drill sergeant or something like that. You use a plainer definition: discipline is doing what you don’t like doing and doing it well. Is that the whole of it, or is mastery of something past just forcing the task?
Ray Zinn: Well, the definition of doing what you don’t like doing and doing it well is the key. It’s not the plan; it’s just the key. The key is to be able to have that disciplined nature that you’re not going to be going to be caught off guard, that you’re going to do the tough things first and get those out of the way. Don’t procrastinate. Learning not to procrastinate. Having that persistent discipline is key. It’s built into your nature.
It’s like I talk about my regiment in my life is I eat my meals, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, at exactly the same time every day. And then I exercise in the morning, first thing when I get up. So I have this regimen, I have this disciplined approach to my life. I spend time with my family, part of my discipline. And then I also focus on doing the tough things first in the morning, very disciplined on that, getting those out of the way.
In fact, I just did that this morning. I had something I didn’t want to do, but because I didn’t want to do it, I went ahead and did it because otherwise I’d just put it off. Doing the tough things first is key, having a disciplined life. I often refer to it as loving the things you hate. So if there’s something I don’t want to do or hate doing, I’ll do it first, or I’ll keep doing it until I master it.
Waldo Emerson said, “That which we persist in doing becomes easier, not that the nature of the task changes, but our ability to perform it becomes easier.” So that’s the key.
It’s like learning to play an instrument. When I sat down and learned to play the piano, it was like playing “Chopsticks.” And I thought, “Well, this is not playing the piano.” But when you persist in doing it, when you develop that discipline, practicing every day for at least a half an hour, you’ll learn to play the piano well or whatever other instrument you intended to do. Being disciplined is not necessarily like playing video games; it’s not fun, but it is enjoyable. Meaning that once you get it out of the way, you go, “Man, I’m glad I did that, got that done.” And so there’s that relief, that joy that you feel when you do conquer something that you otherwise were dreading.
Rob Artigo: At Micrel, you held this standard that you were just describing here for 37 years. You didn’t just do it one morning; you did it for 37 years, and you did it beyond that, because we know that after you left Micrel, you’ve been doing it, and before you got to Micrel, you were doing that. So how does a leader master discipline without making it part of their… You were sort of alluding to it just a moment ago, which is making it a… You can make it a mood. So how do you master discipline without turning it into a “mood”?
Ray Zinn: Well, the drudgery thing, if you dread something, as I said, learning to love the things you hate. And so I can’t think of anything that I hate. I mean, I go to the dentist, and I don’t look forward to the numbing aspect of it, but I’m looking forward to getting the problem resolved. So rather than looking on the negative, don’t focus on the anesthesia or an anesthetic; look at the outcome. In other words, focus on the positive: “Oh, I’m going to get rid of that toothache,” or “I’m going to get rid of that problem in my gums,” or whatever. Focus on the positive, not the negative.
As I mentioned about, I don’t like to get that shot in my jaw, in my cheek or whatever to numb me, but I’m focusing on, “Boy, I’m sure going to be glad to get rid of that toothache,” or whatever. Focus on the positive and not the negative. And that’s what I do when I tackle something that I don’t want doing. I say, “Okay, let’s look at the pros, the positives of what it is I’m doing, and then it won’t bother me so much to look at the negative aspects of having to go through it.” Whether it might be laying off an employee, or whether it may be changing customers, whether it may be having to redo your product line, a lot of those are just terrible, drudgery things that you have to do. But if you look at the positive aspect of having get rid of an employee, the headcount cost goes down, you may find a better replacement, you might get rid of a toothache at the company, as you would. Look at the positive aspect of it.
Rob Artigo: It’s pretty common that people get fatigued towards the end of the day. Where does discipline usually break down later when maybe the hard things are done, like you dealt with the tough things first, and then things get a little bit easier as a day go by as far as the things you want to do, and you’re working on those things? Where does it break down when something changes, when there’s an easy exception that all of a sudden shows up?
Ray Zinn: Well, part of the discipline is knowing your body, knowing who you are, and how much you can handle. If you find yourself getting fatigued, if you’re finding yourself running out of gas, take a break, back off, because all you’re going to do is dig yourself deeper in the problem. So you want to make sure that you know your body, you know what you can handle, know your mindset.
For example, let’s suppose your fit as a fiddle, but you got a big problem at home. That’s going to be weighing on your mind. So if that’s weighing on your mind to the point where you’re getting distracted, go home and solve the problem. Get rid of the toothache, as you would. Rather than just dealing with the toothache, get rid of it. Don’t just put it off. The key to really being a good, disciplined person is knowing yourself, knowing who you are, what you can do, and what you can’t do, and then just pacing yourself.
Rob Artigo: I’ve heard that a boom is maybe a worse test than a bust. So in a downturn, you have to be careful. Of course, you know that you’re in a downturn, you’re really careful about the decisions that you make. It’s like flying, let’s use the flying analogy. You’re flying, it’s a little stormy, you’re paying a lot more close attention to the controls. But when it’s going easy, you can sit there and, I don’t know, I want to say rest on your laurels because you got all that responsibility of flying, but at the same time, you have to maintain discipline even when the orders are strong.
Ray Zinn: No, I know exactly what you’re saying. When things are always going wonderfully, we tend to get lazy. We tend to lose that discipline, that edge that we need, that sharp edge. It’s kind of like keeping all those knives in your drawer sharp: once they get really bad, then it’s hard to resharpen them. So staying fit as a fiddle, as you would, mentally and physically, spiritually, that will keep you on your plan, on your target, whatever it is you’re trying to accomplish.
It’s true that sometimes boom times make us complacent. We get used to everything going wonderfully, and we’re not prepared when things go south. So when they do go south, we’re thrown off our game. Now, it doesn’t mean you want to look for problems and force yourself to be in a bad condition or a bad situation, but certainly having bad times does keep you sharp. It keeps you on your game. I hate to say pray for challenges, but that’s kind of what you do. If you don’t have problems and challenges that you’re constantly working on, you’re going to get a little rusty.
Rob Artigo: Some people think that the talented folks on the team get a pass, the gifted engineer, the rainmaker, the person who delivers and also kind of cuts corners. Did you discipline those folks the same way as someone else who wasn’t maybe as efficient, or did you just treat everybody exactly the same?
Ray Zinn: No, you treat everybody equally as far as in an equal sense. You don’t try to give one person an advantage over another. You try to be fair, and you recognize their strengths and their weaknesses. That’s the key to understanding and knowing your people is knowing what their strengths and weaknesses are so you don’t play to their weaknesses, you play to their strengths.
I’ve had employees where I had a lot of family problems, and that’s a weakness, but I didn’t play to it. I gave them an opportunity to resolve it so they could get back on track. Because if I pushed them to solve the company problem while they were having family problems, that was a losing battle; too many mistakes get made. If you don’t repair a mistake or problem, all you’re going to do is create more, because small problems become big problems, ultimately.
Rob Artigo: That goes to the ministering and also the hand on the shoulder thing that you’ve talked about and knowing the family. Where is the line between holding the standard and becoming the boss that people have to endure?
Ray Zinn: Well, if you treat your employees like your family, then you’re more likely to have less issues and more success in running your company. I treated all my employees like I would my children, my family. I treat them well. I understood their problems. I sorrowed with them when they had difficulties. I was empathetic and understanding of changes in their lives, because after all, we have more than just work to deal with. We have our own personal lives that we got to solve, whether it be physical, health issues, whether it be family issues, it could be other financial problems that the employee has. You have to be aware of it, being sensitive. Treat them as though they were your children.
Rob Artigo: Last question. A company can copy the slogan and still have no discipline. What did you watch for in a manager who claimed they did the tough things first, and what told you they had not mastered it?
Ray Zinn: They procrastinate. They don’t solve the problem. I had a situation come up yesterday: I had a big wasp nest that was in one of my light fixtures. I asked my grandson to wait till night, wait till dark, and then go out and spray them with insect spray, and get rid of it. Well, he kept putting it off, and I’m thinking, “I bet he’s afraid. I bet he doesn’t want to do it because he’s afraid of getting stung.” That’s why I told him to do it at nighttime. But he didn’t recognize the advantage of nighttime versus daytime, because when he went out to look at them, all he could see was those wasps flying around. And I said, “Well, at night when they go back in, that’s the time to spray them.”
So finally, after much coaxing, I did get him to go out and eliminate that wasp nest. You got to recognize people’s fears and their concerns. So if they start putting off something, like my grandson did, he didn’t want to go spray that because he’s afraid of getting stung, you have to be sensitive of that and recognize it.
Rob Artigo: Well, our listeners can join the conversation at toughthingsfirst.com. Your questions and comments are always welcome there. We’re happy to have you. Follow Ray on X, Facebook, and LinkedIn, and of course pick up Ray’s books, Tough Things First: The Essential Leader, and The Zen of Zen series one, two, and three, with the new book, Zen of Zinn Daily. Until next time, do the tough things first, right, Ray?
Ray Zinn: Let’s do it. Learn to love the things you hate.
